Press Interview
with
H. E. Prof. Dr. Hamid bin Ahmed Al-Rifaie
* President of the International Islamic Forum for Dialogue
* Member of the Presidential Body of the International Islamic Coucil for Da’wa and Relief
* Assistant Secretary General of the World Muslim Congress
* Secretary of the Islamic – Catholic Liasion Committee (Vatican)
 
 The focal point of the interview:
* The Advantages of Dialogue * Dialogue with the Jews * Dialogue with the Secularists * Marginalizing the Role of Women in Dialogue
* Barring women from Consultation and Political Dialogue  

 

Q1- Some claim that the Islamic –Christian Dialogue is of no avail. What is your response to this claim?

A1- There is a close relationship between the advantages of any business and the scheme as well as the means of achieving it. Blunt schemes and unproductive methods are usually disadvantageous or even yield negative effects. However, well contrived scheme and effectual methods have instant advantages and yield good results.

Therefore, we in the I.I.F.D. have given this matter serious consideration from the very beginning, and came to the conclusion that, in the field of dialogue, it is both facilitating and useful to deal with subjects of common mundane interests, rather than questions of creed and peculiarities of faith. This is because such matters are regarded by each party as very sensitive, and as such, discussing them directly, usually ends up in fruitless controversy, and may even lead to more pretexts of conflict and mutual struggle.

Therefore, in order to avoid these negative consequences, a Qur’anic injunction came with the instruction of displaying wisdom and engaging in good speech, and above all to argue in the best manner when dealing with non Muslims. This instruction also proscribed using disgraceful terms when addressing the non Muslims as well as insulting their confessions and urged that their existence be accepted on the basis of God’s saying: {To you be your way; and to me mine}. Qur’an 109/6, It also urged Muslims to be charitable to them and treat them well so long as it is possible to do so.

 It recommended cooperating with them and prohibited depreciating their good and positive aspects in the spheres of life since the trust of succession and construction of the land as well as establishing justice among the people is a joint responsibility both of the Muslim and the non Muslim. It made it clear that each is rewarded according to his deed in this world and the hereafter. In this world, they are all governed by God’s saying: {Whosoever desgires the life of the worgld and its glitter, to them We shallpay in full (the wages of) their deeds therein, and they will have njo diminution therin}. Qur’an 11/15, and in the hereafter, their Lord and creator will judge their case. God says: {verily, those who beklieve (in Allah and His Messenger Muhammad), and those who are  Jews, aaand the Sabians, and the Christian, and the Magian, and those who worship others besides Allah, truly Allah will judge between them on the Day of ressurecthion. Verily Allh is over all things a witness}. Qur’an 22/17

Moreover, there is no doubt that, tackling general worldly matters during the process of dialogue avails each party the opportunity of presenting its values and principles in their regard so as to achieve the best for all. It also avails the practical opportunity of introducing the eternal Islamic values and principles, as well as the established traditions and points of departure in an atmosphere ruled by the objectivity of striving to achieve the common interest and face the challenges of the common destiny away from the atmosphere of altercation normally accompanied and charged with the spirit of daring and psychological as well as mental incomprehensiveness, which prevents absorbing of facts and the exposition of true and sensible vision. 

Of course sometimes questions affecting the ideological aspect are raised under the dictates of the details of dialogue. But, these are raised in a  language and manner suitable to the Atmosphere and the general context of the methodology of dialogue, which is governed by the spirit and manners of mutual understanding and joint endeavour to realize the best for Human societies.

For example, it happened during a dialogue encounter under the theme of “the manners of social and cultural intercourse among people” that as soon as a Muslim researcher finished presenting his paper on the subject, one of the speakers from the other party said to him: “ But, how can we reconcile between the texts and the practical realities highlighting Islamic values’ concern for human dignity and safe as well as equitable co-existence between peoples and the Qur’anic verse that says: {O’ you who believe! Fight those of the disbeklievers who are close to you and let them find harshness in you, and Know that Allah is with those who are Al-Muttaqun (the pious)}. 9/123 Does ruthlessness and forcefulness come into harmony with the values of the safe co-existence you emphasized in your paper? This was what the inquirer was told: ‘ We completely believe in these verse and abide by its dictates; and there is no contradiction whatsoever between the contents of the paper and the implications of this verse and other verses with similar context and implications according to the following explanation: An accurate understanding of any verse in the Holy Qur’an or the traditions of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him  is unattainable unless it is viewed within the framework and context of the unity and the integration of all the verses tackling the same subject, and then within the framework, context and integration of the unity of methodology in the Qur’an and the traditions of the Prophet, peace be on him. Any removal of the text from the context of the unity of its specific subject and from the context of the unity and integration of the subject matter of Islam’s message in the Qur’an and the Sunnah would more often than not cause this kind of flaw in comprehension and this kind of presumed contradiction that appeared to you and to the others. 

For example this verse and other verses that agree with it in context and implication represent together rules and regulations of military instructions to the soldier in the battle field. Is there any religion, cult or culture in the history of mankind that instructs the soldier in the battle field to use flowers and bouquets in shooting at their opponents and enemies? Or do the prevailing military instructions endorsed by all nations on earth say that ‘ the soldier must use rocket launchers and weapons of total destruction to fight the enemy? Is this not the truth? Nevertheless, the moral as well as the value oriented aspects of warfare have not been overlooked by the Islamic military instructions even in ferocious battles. According to these instructions the Muslim soldier in the battlefield is not allowed either to kill or hurt an old man, woman or children. Equally, he is not allowed to harass a worshipper in his worshipping place, or to uproot a tree unnecessarily, or to dry up a water well, or to mutilate the bodies of the dead, or finish up the wounded. He should not maltreat a prisoner or pursue a person fleeing the battlefield. In fact Islamic military dictates urges respect for the enemy’s dead persons, and insists that they be buried and their private parts covered because Islam honors the human soul for its very nature. The inquirer nodded his head as sign of comprehension. Thereupon, one of his colleagues said: ‘But you say that we are infidels’; and was given this explanation: “ We do not call anyone in particular an infidel, we only repeat what our Lord and your Lord says: {Surely, disbelievers are those who said; “Allah is the third of the three (in a trinity)” But ther is no Allah (God) (non who has the right to be worshipped) but one Allah}. Qur’an 5/73. Indeed, God, the most high has given these specifications of infidelity and infidels. Therefore, anyone (without exception) believing and acting according to these specifications would have condemned himself to infidelity. For, professing the unity of God, the most high. And singling Him out with divinity and Lordship are the basis of true faith, submission to the will of God and worshipping Him. Allah says: {Verily, Allah forgives not that partners should be set up with Him (in wortship), but He forgives except that (anythingh else) to whom He wills; and whoever sets up partners with Allah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin}.Qur’an 4/48 Thereafter, none of the members of the other party uttered a word. They were both convinced and unable to retort. The dialogue continued with its discussing the topic of the meeting. 

However, anyone who is interested in the usefulness of may wonder: so what? Were they convinced about the reality of Islam? Did they show any desire to embrace Islam? Obviously, such hasty Questions have connection with the maximum degree of the objectives of dialogue, or with maximal aspoiration of the aims of dialogue. This desire that all men accept God’s true religion (Islam), which we share with them, exists of course in the hgeart. But, originally, dialogue is only one of the means ofr wisdom in introducing Islam, so as to achieve this end with whoever Allah wishes well. But there bare other objectives and degrees of the advantage of dvialogue which should not have escaped the minds of the distinguished brothers.

These are divided into two:

 The first, which pertains to the Muslim speaker himself is represented briefly in the following:

1- Executing the duty of propagtion to the path of Allah.    

2-  Perfecting the art of wisdom and good exhortation

3- Perfecing the competence of presenting Islam’ Rgument and its magnificent proof

4-  Acuiring experience and skil in the spheres of dvialogue

5-   Knowing the others closely and understanding the nature of their thinking and field approaches

6-   Filling up the areas of dialogue with qualified cadres capabling nof introdfucing the true image of Islam

7-  Perfecting the skill of introducing the magnificent methodology of Islam in order to achieve the objective of constructing the earth (morally and materially) and establishing justice and safe co-existence among people

8-   Perfecting the duty of collective endeavour, through coordinating and unification of concepts, vision and effgorts  

The second pertains to the othes and is represented briefly in the following:  

1-  Knowing Islam and the comprehensivveness of its great internationa message of Islam

2- Understanding   the seriousness of the field nIslamic solutions to theproblems of human life

3- Receiving correct and accurate answers about problems and inquiries revolving in his mind or the minds of the others

4-   Practically knowing the manners and bevhavbiour of the Muslim individual in the field of dialogue

5- Receiving the message of Islam and to be responsible for that in front of Almighty Allah.

In view of all this and others, some of us must not confine the benefits of dialogue within the maximum goal of dialogue manifested in accepting and embracing Islam. Although this goal exists in our souls, since we are ordered to invite and incite prople to it, the isssue as is well known bhas connection to the will of Allah Almighty and His guidance.

We have only to exert effortsw and leave and showkeeness on good perfomance, and the leave the rest to Almighty Allah. Allah says: {And whosoever Allah wills to guide, He opens his breast to Islam}. Qur’an 6/126. bRather, thegy must show interest in the other aims and goals of dialogue, which are the core of our duties towards Islam and achieving its message in life. And by so doing, their attitude towards dialogue will become closer to objectivity, and even closer to the accurate and comprehensive understanding of the maghnificent nmethodology of Islam.  

Q2- Why is dialogue confined to Christians and excludes the Jews?

 Firstly: In princbiple, dialoghue is held between poarties who are prepared to be committed to the dictates of values and principles, as well as be commite to standards of justhice, debate and proof.

Secondly: The Internathional Idslamic Committee four Dialogue has notb restyricted its activities in the field of dialogue to a specfic religious or cultural body. We engage in dialogue with all regarding any lefgitimate issue intended to achieve the best for the human family, provided the other party is committerd to the methodology and standards of dialogue indicated in First above.

Thirdly: Any party in the world that lacks commitment to the methodology, standards and values of dialogue and insists on showing disregard to divine standards and civilized norms automatically omits itself from the list of those we condfuct dialogue with. There is no dialogue with those who go against the least standards of respect for human dignity and the values of safe human co-existence. Within the previous context, the Jews, are regarded like the followers of any religion, cult, culture and civilization. We are prepared to conduct dialogue in every legitimat issue aimed at achieving the best for a safe and just human co-exitence with any party among them who shows commitment to the methods, values and standards of dialogue.

This excludes those among them who resent the values of dialogue, and of course, such is the habit of most Jews, who insist today on pursuing the policies of conflict, violation of man’s dignity and suppression of his rights and factors o-f his existence in order to achieve the vagaries and ambitions of international Zionism. 

Are they not the ones who are perpetrating the foolish violations and insolent defilation of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and other religious places in Al-Quds (Jerusalem)? Don’t their rash, bloody and contentious massacre of children, women and old people with the blessing of the international Zionism and iniquitous world powers serve as a strong proof of their rebellion against, not only divine values and principles, but against all human standards and customs? In fact, this goes a long way to confirm the fact that there is only one dialogue language that the Jews understand and insist on adopting as a code of life, i. e. the language of rifles, rocket launchers and any means that could help them perpetrate tyranny and mischief in the land, and help them impose their influence on human societies not understand.

This of course, legally and customarily, requires that we deal with them reciprocally according to our own legal criteria. God says: {Then whoever transgresses thge prohition against you, you transgress likewise against him. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is with Al-Muttaqun (the pious)}. Qur’an 2/194

Q3 – What is the optimal way of conducting Dialogue with the Secularists in the Islamic Countries?

 A3- In our understanding, dialogue has one optimal way for all, based on wisdom, good speech and commitment to legitimacy, objectivity and intellectualism in conducting dialogue with the other party.

 The secularists are but an intellectual group that has its own vision and belief in its dealing with the political as well as social issues of life. We in the International Islamic Committee for Dialogue hold dialogue with this group regarding any issue that is envisaged to realize the best for our community as well as for the entire human family, so long as there is commitment to the methodology, values and criteria of dialogue.

 

Q4- Why do men feature prominently on the information and reawakening platform While women are marginalized?

If you mean by featuring prominently, quantity and frequency, you are right, because this is global phenomenon, which has its religious and cultural reasons throughout the human history, the principles and details which cannot be elaborated on in haste. However, if you mean by featuring prominently, quality and practice, then in my own estimation the issue requires a revision with regard to the claim of “Marginalizing the role of Muslim women”. For, the Muslim woman today is playing an effective role in the field of dialogue Islamic propagation, and has her own institutions and distinguished activities both in regional as well as international conferences, which we hope would be enhanced and developed. Moreover, Within the framework of the International Islamic Committee for Dialogue, women have earnest participation, in accordance with our own legal standards and cultural manners.

Moreover, there are women’s international bodies, which specialize in all spheres of life and contribute positively in enriching and guiding the progress of the contemporary human civilization. For, example, there is the International Islamic Committee for Women and Children within the framework of the Cairo based I.I.C.D.R. managed by an assortment of highly educated sisters who have been playing an effective role in regional as well as international conferences. For more information in this regard please contact the Secretariat of the Committee through the Secretariat General of the International Islami Council for Da’wa and Relief- Fax No. (00202) 4092823 – Cairo-Egypt.

 

Q5-Is it not an act of injustice to forbid women from holding consultation and dialogue in political issues while confining this to the men folk only?

A5- It must be confirmed (firstly), that, in conformity with the proclamation of the divine assignment in the Qur’an an the Sunnah, men and women have complimentary and equitable responsibility in constructing the earth (materially and morally). Allah says: {(And remember) when yor Lord said to the angels: “ Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generation after generation on earth}. 2/30, and (secondly), they have full responsibility in bearing the trust of the divine assignment of setting forth the Islamic code, and realizing justice on earth. God says:

 {Truly, We did offer Al-Aamanah (the trust of moral responsibillity ortt honesty and all the duthies which Allah has ordained) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they de4clined to bear it and wear afrasid of it (i.e. afraid of Allah’s thorment). But man bore it. Verily, he was unjust (to himself) and ignorant (of its refsult)}. 33/72, and they have (thirdly) an equitable complimentary responsibility in managing the affairs of life on the basis of promoting charity and resisting corruption and establishing the obligation of prayer and the obligation of Zakat (poor due) as well, and obeying God by enforcing His laws among men. God says: {And believers, men and women are Auliyah (helpers, sukpporters, friends, protectors oof one another; they enjoin (on the people) Al-Marouf (ertc..Islamic monotheism and all that Islam orders one tho do), and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (etc..polytheism and disblief of all kinds, all that Islam has forbidden); they perform As-Salat (Iqasmat As-Salat), and give the Zakat and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah will have His mercy on them. Sxurely Allah is Almighty all-wise}. 9/71    

 As a matter of fact, the consultation and dialogue in question are legitimate issues.  Allah says: {And those who answer the call of their Lord (etc.. to believe that He is the only one Lord (Allah, and to worship non but Him alone) and perform As-Salkat, and who (conduct) their affairs by mutual consultations, and who spend of what We have bestowed on them}.42/38 And also: {And consult them in the affairs. Then when you have taken a decision, put your trust in Allah, certainly, Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him)}. Qur’an 3/159. As is well known, imposition or prohibition or obstruction of a legitimate matter without a compelling legitimate necessity is in itself an infringement on God’s laws and an undue assumption of one of God’s absolute rights of prescribing what is forbidden and what is permissible, and as such is an enormous wrong-doing.

 Allah says: {Verily, joining others in worship with Allah is a great Zulm (injustice) indeed}. 31/13. This of course in principle and generally speaking. Specifically however, it may be said that each question has its particular details, rulings and applied legitimate rules that must be adhered to. Hence, the following are, briefly, among the legitimate rulings, rules and mechanisms that must be respected in the event where men and women must work together in the various spheres of life:

1-  Women must wear the legitimate veil

2-  Men must dress modestly

3-  There shall be no mixing between the sexes

4- There must not be seclusion

5-  The principle of equitable complementing must be respected among them.   

 In a word, with regard to the Islamic laws, there is no problem whatsoever in as much as the working of women and performing their tasks in the various aspects of life is concerned. Indeed, the problem lies in the way certain parties understand things, which is a problem resulting from lack of distinction between legally established principles and the rules, ethics and mechanisms of enforcing the principle. Were these distinguished brothers, whose fidelity we do not doubt in the least, and whose zeal we hold in high regard, to begin by stressing upon their faith in the legitimacy of woman’s working and her responsibility in the various aspects of life,

 and then determine the legal rules, ethics and mechanisms governing the manner in which men and women discharge their responsibilities inside and outside the house, and place emphasis on the fact that the fundamental responsibility of women is to discharge the responsibiulities of the house as the most important establishment in the society, they would have been more erudite and objective, and they would have understood more perfectly, the comprehensiveness of the science of dealing with this basic issue of Islam’s magnificent system.  

Jeddah:

8/7/1421 -5/10/2000